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What are some good frugal meals for 10 people? Essentially I would like to know some very cheap menu for 10 people (three meals a day for a week). Please offer me some of your insight on how to pull it off. Thank you in advance. :-)

Inexpensive/frugal meals for 3? We are getting ready to move and we're trying to conserve our money. One of the first things we need to work on is our grocery bill. We spend $250 every two weeks.. way too much. My friend actually told me she spends that the entire month. So I'm trying to find meal ideas that are frugal/inexpensive. I don't need any hamburger or beef recipes. Anything that can be used as leftover for the next day is great, as well. Thanks in advance everyone.

Anyone have any suggestions (menus, recipes, websites, etc.) for healthy, frugal meals? Looking for nutritious ideas without breaking the budget!

Frugal meals for family? Looking for ideas with very few ingredients and nothing fancy.

Living on Oahu, any frugal ideas for cooking meals, grocery shopping? Trying to make it on $250.00 a Month for groceries. I'm thinking of having the same dinner two nights in a row. Could you please share any recipes or ideas on how to make things stretch?

Living on Oahu,any frugal ideas, for cooking meals, grocery shopping? Trying to make it on $250.00 for groceries. I'm thinking of making dinner and having it again for dinner the next day.

How to eat on 200 dollars a month? (Frugal)? Hi There I have a food budget of 200 dollars to spend on food each month for myself. About almost everyday I get a free lunch meal from groups and this other places. I also go to the food banks every month, and usually I get around enough food to help me for a few days there. My goal is to eat healthy frugal meals for $ 6.70 daily for 30 days. Spend 50 bucks weekly and 100 bucks biweekly on food. Any suggestions on how I could accomplish this goal:

Anybody have some frugal ideas I can use to save money on groceries and other things? I am generally frugal with groceries, like making something new out of leftovers, and trying to buy foods that can be used as more than one meal. But, I feel like I am missing some other ideas and tips to save money on groceries and other bills. Does anybody have any other ideas? Thanks for your input!

What are you doing different now to save money? How are you being frugal and economizing? We view DVD's from the library instead of renting or buying, cook our own meals instead of dining out, shop at Goodwill, skipped summer vacation, and today I decided to make Christmas gifts (cross-stitching). What are your tips?

where can I find frugal meal ideas?

Where can I find a free meal planner and grocery list to match? Frugal, healthy meals. I dont want to have to pay for this!

Challenge - Meals for under $5 total for family of 4.? Trying to be more frugal! Any ideas would be appreciated!! Thank you!

Frugal dairy and soy free recipes? We are on a VERY tight budget. I am looking for any meal ideas that have no dairy and no soy. My little guy can't have either. Chicken, pork, turkey is also questionable because it's so expensive. We do have a freezer full of elk steaks (can be ate as steak or cut up) and ground elk meat. Any ideas?

What are some frugal Christmas ideas? As far as gift giving and meal planning?

How much money (£) would I need to travel around India for 2 months? I am planning to travel around India for 2 months in September. I would be going with my boyfriend so we would be sharing a room. It would be nice to do it quite cheaply, but probably not staying in hostels all the time, but apparently b&b type accomodation is quite cheap. We are not extravagant but wouldn't be too frugal either. The price would include accomodation, meals, sightseeing, travel within the country, but not flights to India (which is approx £500). Any advice from people who have travelled round India would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Frugal Moms - I need some meal ideas?!?! Help!? I was laid off a few months ago and we are tying to do everything we can to save money until I can find another job. We try to be good, but end up eating out too much, little fast food meals here and there, $5, or $6, but at the end of the month that really adds up!! My husband is even worse about it, for some reason I can't get him to bring his lunch to work!! So I need some EASY (I'm not so experienced in the cooking dept) CHEAP meal ideas that I can prepare for my husband, 12-month old daughter, and I. I need smaller receipes since there are only 3 of us eating, well, really 2 of us, I don't think you could consider my daughter's eating as even really putting a dent in the amount of food, she's like a little birdie :) Anyways, we already do spaghetti, tacos, chicken/steak and rice (which feeds all three of us for dinner, then makes 2 more lunches for my daughter and I, and NO I don't give her steak! lol), teriyaki pork chops & rice, shake & bake pork chops & mac & cheese I do agree - we eat too much meat!! Hubby is a big time "meat and potatoes" kinda guy and is a very pickey eater! That's what makes this even harder :(

if you are about to die on death row, what will be your last meal? anything that comes to mind..be it frugal or exravagent..

Seniors over 60, when you bought a school lunch, which specialty? was on their menu? Was it spaghetti day, or when they had hamburgers. Cafeterias didn't offer us back then, what our kids had later on. Also moms' weren't as willing to offer school lunch money when we could bring a lunch sack from home to save money. Our moms had lived through the depression, and WWII, so they were more frugal, than my generation of parents. I know I tried to buy lunch on the burger or hot dog day. We were given a balanced meal, with no choice on the menu. All for 25c and 5c extra for milk. Were your parents as frugal during the 50's or earlier?

Can someone do a double look over this paper... thanks? Regardless of the amount of income each spouse acquires the financial decisions should be evenly distributed. Before every large purchase such as, a car, house, and schooling for the children there should be a discussion and an agreement should be made. If no one can agree a compromise must be complete. Spontaneous purchases and off the wall buys will not be tolerated among any spouse regardless of the amount of profits they incorporate towards the family unit. I also would like to keep my credit score high, so I would like no credit cards with a limit over one thousand dollars. Also, this will help prevent against going into dept. I do not want to be frugal however, I do want to execute responsible financial decisions and be wise with spending. During the first years of marriage each individual will work full time in order to save money for the future. Once I have children each spouse will take an equal amount of time off work in order to raise and care for the children. Once the children are starting to attend school both of the parents will begin to work more hours and begin to advance their careers. With this marriage the household tasks are going to be stereotypical. The wife will do in home household tasks such as, vacuuming, dusting, and cleaning the bathrooms. The husband will do more yard work such as, mowing the lawn, cleaning the gutters, and trimming the hedges The children will also participate in household maintenance and have daily chores that would need to be completes before the day is over. In my marriage I would like the child rearing responsibilities to be evenly distributed. I do not want one parent to have more rules over the other when it comes to raising the children. The rules set for the children will be agreed upon by both parents before they become enforced. Any decisions regarding the childes lives will be discusses among both parents and if no agreements can me made there will be a compromise. If a child disagrees with the decision that was made we will try to have a conversation with the child as to why they disagree with the result. Most parents try to enforce a specific religion into their household and children, but I want my home and marriage to be open to different ideas and beliefs. Therefore, my religion and husband’s religion will not will not be forced upon our children. However, we will talk about all different religions from around the world. When our children are old enough they can find the religion that connects with them. With both parents working I think it is important for the entire family to sit down and have a homed cooked meal at least three times out the week. This will allow for everyone to come together and talk. It will also keep the children out of dangerous activities such as, drugs. Both parents will incorporate equally to the meal and the chores will be evenly distributed among all the family members. I understand that these are ideal situations and that not everything goes according to plan. You always need to expect the unexpected and know that if you try to talk and work through difficult situations hopefully my marriage will be long lasting.

What did the third penny reveal? One day a bachelor who was a poor tipper walked into his favourite restaurant and ordered lunch. A new waitress served his meal and received a three-cent tip. When he came in the next day, she thanked him for his “generosity”, and she said she could tell the character of a diner by the way he tipped. “Well, what could you tell me about me?”, he asked. “You put three pennies in a neat row,” said the waitress, and that shows you’re a very tidy person. The first penny tells me you’re frugal, and the second tells me you’re a bachelor.” “That’s true,” he agreed. But what does the third penny tell you?’ “The third penny tells me your father was a bachelor too.”

Do most people who lead the "flashy" life style have lots of debt? You know the sort of people with the, sports car, crazy priced suits etc etc etc? I can't imagine why so many people live beyond their means and fail to plan for the future. My wife and I have always lead a very frugal life, but we have a lovely home, go on holiday twice a year and have never went without anything for as long as we've been together. Even if things were hard financially when we first got together we could make a meal from next to nothing. I know it's silly but It pains me that these people just don't realise how much debt and grief they're getting themselves into, they just don't care as it's all live for the moment, what do you think? am I wrong? Thanks :)

Does anyone else have anxiety from spending money? (yours or others)? I'm seventeen years old and my whole life my father has been extremely cheap, thank god I had my mom to balance things out and actually buy me things, but since their divorce my mom is working on her career and does not have much money but my dad is fairly wealthy. He has his own flourishing business, so I KNOW he's got money. but he is frugality is really sick.. and it's starting to rub off on me. We have a nice house but he refuses to turn on the air conditioning or heat when needed. our windows are usually open even when there is no breeze. It's miserable since I live in Texas and the heat can be unbearable. Our fridge and pantry are EMPTY. When people come over they are shocked that we have no food. My dad makes me guilty every time we go to the grocery store for school lunch food or whatever else we need and freaks out if the bill is over 30 dollars. Now I know women spends 100's of dollars on groceries for their family, I used to have that luxury! but now dinner is the dollar menu at a fast food restaurant which is completely unhealthy and depressing that I can't have a healthy meal plan to obtain a healthy weight. I was not allowed to have new school clothes this year, no new pair of shoes.. he never gives me any shopping money if I'm going to my mom's. Not to mention he flat out refused to pay child support therefore I have to live with him.. Long story... but anyways I'm terrified of asking him for basic things I need. he complains when me and my sister need razors or other toiletries. and when I HAVE to ask for something I feel really sick to my stomach like i'm a burden to him for having needs. When I get money of my own i'm scared to use it or if my mom or grandma takes me shopping i feel terribly guilty of spending their money. It's a sickness. and I really don't want to grow up like him! Has anyone else experienced this before? Had an extremely frugal parent? Or are dealing with money issues.. mind you, this isn't my dad trying to cut down on costs because of the economy.. He has money. He's just a psycho. and if I ever call him "cheap" he screams at me, and never hears me out. I don't think he realizes how little i have compared to the other kids at my school. I mean they get to eat nice food, and have a wardrobe full of juicy couture. Hah. I try to look forward to the future, but what if I end up like him :/ Apples don't fall far from the tree.. or maybe I'll just live my life feeling worthless, because that's how he makes me feel. Especially when I see him spending money on his girlfriends.. money he could be using to make my life a little more enjoyable, like effing air conditioning.

Daughter was accused of of bad behaviour during visit to relatives? This is a long one... My 20Y old daughter was invited by my wife's sister to visit their family in Europe. Her uncle works for the goverment and they have lived in many countries. Daughter is a full time student, saved up and paid for her own airfare and recently spent 15 days there. The stay included a trip to Ireland for 3 days that her aunt and uncle paid for. She returned a few days ago (changed her flight to to return 2 days early because she was homesick) and just after she was dropped off at the airport, my wife received a call from her sister that our daughter was rude and did hurtful things and spoiled everyone's holiday: said she was non-trusting (counting her money frequently); rarely offered to treat their hosts for meals; while staying at the hotel in Ireland (aunt, cousin, and daughter in same room) threatened her aunt and sister because they wouldn't let her sleep (said she wanted to kick them); expected to be invited along when they went out to dance clubs; pouted when she was not invited to go with her aunt, cousin and a friend for a day trip to Amsterdam(more on that later); was standoffish to many other guests that visited during the holidays; rarely said thank you; chewed a pickle with her mouth open and after being told 'a million times' not to (her aunt tends to exagerrate a lot); 'disecting' her cousins boyfriend up and down, then telling her how disgusting he was (her cousin used to live with her mom in europe was also visiting from the states - the boyfriend was a european); and that she stole what was at first 20 euros from the cousin, then a day later is was 25-30 euros, then in an email one day ago it went to up to 100 euros (her uncle indicated it was more like 25-30 euros, 20 from the cousin and possibly a few euros that were lying around the house) and suggested that it could have been lost anywhere - my wife says he is just being diplomatic. Background on my daughter, this is the first time she has stayed anywhere more than one nite and her only experience out of the country was on a cruise with my wife and I. She is a little geeky and a bookworm; does have a problem with selfishness, wanting to do things she likes to do; is immature for her age; hates to have her sleep interrupted; probably read too many european romance novels; chews pickles with her mouth open; terrible at math - reason for re-counting her money all the time - trying to get the exchange rate right; and is very frugal with her money. But the thing I can't understand is the accusation that she stole money, she has never stolen anything from anyone, unless you count she and her sister 'tempoarily borrowing' each others clothes. While she was there I received a couple of calls from my daughter. The first about 8 days in saying she was having a great time, with the exception of not getting much sleep in Ireland. Said she was a little homesick but she was looking forward to the rest of her visit. (We also received a call from her aunt relaying the perceived threat, but asking us not to say anything to her because she felt things were going better) She also emailed once that even though they had been to only 3 countries, she was having a great time, gushed about her uncle, and again said she missed us. The next phone call came around Christmas and she indicated that she was getting bored, apparently many house guests were in and out and nearly all of them, aunt and cousin included, were into smoking non-tobacco products, and she did not want to spend much time out of her room. (I did not know they would be smoking or we would not have let her go...) She said she was glad they didn't take her with them to Amsterdam once she found out what they would be doing there (her uncle took her sightseeing in-country that day). And she was excited to be going on a day trip to another country a couple of days after the holiday. Then 2 days later I recieved the last call that she was changing her flight and coming home the day after she came back from her daytrip because she was homesick. My daughter lives with us, but has been staying for the last few days with her Mom who lives nearby. She is coming home in a couple of days. My wife sides with her sister and says that her sister wouldn't lie and that she is guilty of whatever her sister says. We are on the verge of breakup at this point. Any suggestions on how to deal with this situation when she gets here?? My wife is her step-mom.

Does Pelosi sound like a hypocrite to you? Pelosi wants to spend $15,000 an hour using an Air Force jet to travel from Washington to her home in San Francisco! Remember how the media raked Gov. Palin over the coals when she spent $800 to travel to her home in Alaska? You just have to love these frugal Democrats. "...Pelosi's request for regular use of a U.S. Air Force C-32 - the same plane that flies the vice president and first lady. She wants to travel in luxury. The Air Force jet is the same size and airframe as the Boeing 757-200, which carries about 300 passengers. The C-32 boasts 42 business-class seats - plus a wood-paneled state room, big-screen TV, full-size bed and crew of 16, including uniformed stewards who bring drinks and meals on request. Oh, and an open bar. Cost to taxpayers? Some $15,000 an hour. A round-trip to Rep. Pelosi's home in San Francisco could easily run $300,000. Meanwhile, the same flight on a commercial jet can run less than $300. " http://www.nypost.com/seven/02102007/postopinion/opedcolumnists/air_pelosi_opedcolumnists_richard_miniter.htm

If you are about to die on death row, what will be your last meal? anything that comes to mind..be it frugal or exravagent..

Opinions on Kirkland brand dog food? I didn't realize Costco carried its own brand of dog food... and I always figure the store brands are not as good, but I checked the ingredients... and they are better than what was in the ones sitting next to it, including Iams and Purina. I feed my pups Innova right now and it had nearly the same thingS! No by-products or corn meal, and I was under the impression those were the two things I did NOT want my dogs to have. I'm a frugal kinda girl and this dog food was like 25.00 CHEAPER! Anyone else know about it??? Chris ! they would have to say that in the ingredient wouldn't they? Those are the "by products"... My mom just informed me that our dog we had when I was growing up lived on that stuff. She lived to be 14!

Can anyone name some or any 99-cent meals...? that i could simply google and download a recipe? I would buy a book, but I'm conducting a research about frugal living in difficult times. I would sincerely appreciate your answers.

Frugal living tips, anyone? Help? Okay, so I already cloth diaper and make my 8 month old daughter's baby food. My husband has been away training in the army so we have not had grocery expenses that include him for about four months. We will be relocating (from Iowa to Washington)in December so we are trying to save as much money as possible. Any menu/meal ideas that are inexpensive but still healthy and won't load you up on a bunch of bad carbs(sugars, white flour, etc.)? I love to cook and everything so it won't be a problem to spend more time in the kitchen than I already have to cooking my daughter's food! Any other frugal household tips such as cleaning solutions, laundry solutions, etc... would be great also. Thanks in advance!!

When your spouse became "weekend" mom or dad, did he/she overdo it? My wife, from whom I am separated, had our kids for the first time on her own this weekend, and she really went all out. The kids just called me and said that they went to an amusement park, out to eat for every meal (my wife can't cook and loves deep-fried food anyway), movies, roller skating and Toys R Us (where my son got a drum set -- yay for me and our tiny house -- and my daughter a Barbie Dream House and several dolls). The kids seemed giddy. I'm an artist and can't afford to keep up with that, and I have them M-F, school days, so am supposed to give them consistency -- early to bed, healthy meals, homework. My wife did not bring Krystka, the au pair, so I wonder if she's being phased out. Krystka came over before and watched "Death Wish II" with me. She called my place "a dump" and promised to come back some time soon and make it better. I'm just worried about this precedent my wife is setting. Will I be the frumpy, square, frugal parent while my wife gets the glory?

Is shopping at malls and outlet stores ending and being replaced by thrift shopping? Will all the malls...? Shopping centers, and other places close and be replaced by thrift stores? Is thrift shopping a national trend and going to become dominant? Will buying used become the only way to shop? Here's an article covering this: Frugal living more about priorities than sacrifice * Story Highlights * Frugal strategies include buying foods in season, shopping for used clothing * "America's Cheapest Family": To achieve frugality you need a spending plan * Careful spending in one area can free cash for things that matter to you more * Next Article in Living » Decrease font Decrease font Enlarge font Enlarge font NEW YORK (AP) -- When mathematics professor Annalisa Crannell needs new clothes, she doesn't head for the mall or outlet stores or even discount stores. art.crannell.ap.jpg Annalisa Crannell holds a blanket she made from old shirts and an old sheet. Crannell is an aficionado of Goodwill Industries shops. And she'll pass by the racks with $7 blue jeans and head for the bins where the jeans sell for $1. She's also happy to take friends' castoffs. "Am I the biggest tightwad on the planet?" asks Crannell, a resident of Lancaster, Pennsylvania. "No. But I'm more frugal than most of the people I know." A lot of people could learn from Crannell, who teaches at Franklin & Marshall College, and others who have adopted thrifty habits that they feel are both ecologically sound and help them cope with the rapidly rising costs of food, fuel and other necessities. The word "frugal" might sound a bit old-fashioned, but the concept is as modern as today, says New York financial planner Stacy Francis. "Keeping track of where your money goes is the most important financial task you can undertake," she said. "It really doesn't matter what you make. It matters what you spend." Don't Miss * Extreme recycling: Food, furniture, diapers * 23 surprising things you can get for free * In Depth: Right On Your Money She said many people didn't worry much about money when the stock market was rising, home values were soaring and the job market was solid. Those conditions have changed, and "when cash is tight, spending needs to get tighter, too," Francis said. Some people have turned frugality into a lifestyle. Annette and Steve Economides of Scottsdale, Arizona, try to live the life they describe in their book, "America's Cheapest Family Gets you Right on the Money." The Economides, who don't use credit cards, believe consumers need to avoid debt, spend less than they earn and embrace a thrifty lifestyle. "It's not about sacrifice, it's about priorities," Annette Economides says. The couple suggests people start on the road to frugality by making a spending plan. "Some people think 'budget' is a four letter word," Steve Economides said. "It's not. And it's not a noun either. It's a verb. And it's an action verb." Budgeting requires a family to estimate future spending, based on what has happened in the past, and to set aside money to cover what a family considers important, he said. What if it doesn't look like the money will go far enough? That's where frugality comes in. Take grocery shopping. The average American family of four spends between $800 and $900 a month on food, Steve Economides said. By shopping more carefully, a family can cut that in half, he said. The Economides, who have four children, watch the store circulars and ads so they can stock up when items they use frequently are on sale. "Around Thanksgiving, when turkey goes on sale for 35 to 40 cents a pound, we buy several," she said. They limit meals out in restaurants, plan menus in advance to take advantage of seasonal -- and thus cheaper -- produce, and use coupons to hold down food costs even further. They shop just once a month, to reduce the time they have to spend in stores -- and the gasoline they use to get to and from the supermarket. For Crannell, frugal spending in some areas, like clothing, frees up money to be spent on things she cares more about. She and her husband, Neil Gussman, invested in energy-efficient windows for their home several years ago. She walks to work, but when she does drive it's behind the wheel of a Toyota Prius Hybrid car, which runs on gas and electricity. Crannell likes yard sales, especially those where an entire neighborhood cooperates because there's a bigger selection. She shops at a local farmers market and sometimes makes vegetarian meals, partly because she believes they're healthy and partly to cut down on high-cost meat. Crannell also believes in teaching her children the fine art of thrift shopping. "Nigel, my 8-year-old, loves to go to yard sales with me," she said. "He can get toys for a quarter at yard sales. In fact, he's so cute that he can get things for free. "He has more toys than he knows what to do with." E-mail to a friend E-mail to a friend Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Weekend trip menu planning for a group? I'm going on a 3 day sledding/camping trip and trying to plan a menu. I've volunteered to do dinner the first night, and then the full day of meals and snacks the next day; for about 12 adults and 11 kids. The cabins we're staying in have power, but no kitchen. I can bring my crockpot and griddle, or I can cook w/a barbeque and camp fire... depends what menu ideas I can come up with. I'm looking for good, hearty, stick to your ribs, HOT meals for the group, that are also hopefully somewhat frugal.

Grocery shopping on a budget, for someone who has never had to cook. Help, please!!? Somehow I coasted through college with dining halls and free meals at events, and my first year and a half in the real world I realize I have a huge problem. I eat out too much. I eat out more than I can AFFORD. And I have to stop. This weekend I've committed myself to shopping at grocery stores and eating healthy and cheap. But now I need help. For those of you who cook food most of the time, what are the staples that I need to have each week in order to be successful? I'm allegic to gluten (wheat, barley, rye, flour, soy sauce, etc.) so bread products are definitely out of the question, and out of my budget. I'm hoping to manage under $50 a week in groceries. Under $25 would be fantastic but probably impossible for me. So if any of you have ideas or are good at being frugal, please share! Also, if you have tips for what kinds of meals can be prepared once and then last a while (don't say chili, I'm good at that one already), share those too! Thanks!!!

Cheap/frugal boyfriend? My fiance (boyfriend of over 2 years) is so cheap he took me to taco bell last night and we had to share a meal! He works 2 jobs and spends all his money on himself. How can I express to him that he needs to be a lil less frugal without sounding like a golddigger?

A list of things to take to the hospital to save $? Hi All! Our first baby is due Jan 12.2008 (we are pretty sure it's a boy!), we are so excited! I know it is a ways away...But I have a question for all of you self-sufficient, frugal mothers out there. What did you bring to the hopsital yourself? Did you bring your own: -pads -food (meals) -water -vitamins -tylenol -diapers -wipes -etc. Also do you know if I can wear my own clothes (after the delivery) in the hospital? I've been to visit so many women who have just had their baby and those gowns are not ver modest, and usually the mother's act uncomfortable about them.... I am not worried about doing all of these things myself, I have a huge family and they cannot wait for this baby to come, so I know they will be a big help to me and my hubby (while in the hospital and when I come home) . . . I would love to hear your positive thoughts! Thank you.

how much should you tip for a half priced meal? I've heard of such a related frugal vs cheap example. Specifically, it's OK to use a "buy one get one free of lesser value" coupon at a restuarant, but your tip should be based on the the full amount (after you add in any tax), and NOT the amount after you apply the coupon. If a restaurant has a promo that an entree or whatever is half off, should the tip be based on the original price, the 50% off price, or would you tip the amount somewhere in between the those 2 figures?

Do prison inmates have to pay any $$$ to stay in prison? They get 3 full meals and a cot. It must be pretty boring & awful at the same time - but from an economic point of view - if these guys have any savings (to earn interest/dividends), do some of them view it as a frugal alternative to the real world? Do prisoners have to pay anything to stay in jail - i.e. if they have assets, does the jail get any of it during their stay?

What pre-packaged food I bring on my road trip. (warning tricky question!)? Okay, basically I'm vegetarian and a weight watcher, I'm going to be on a "party" bus to florida for 24 hours (there and back.) and I'm responsible for all of my meals, I'm packing a days worth of food with me for the trip there (sandwiches, etc.) , but what can I pack for the trip back? I don't really care if I eat 5 granola bars and 2 snack packs, just give me Ideas. Keep in mind pre-packaged, no spoiling, can't be heated, etc. Buying more food isn't an option as I'm trying to get by 30 dollars a day at disney (2 meals.) So I'm super frugal help needed. Correction 24 hours both ways, packing 3 meals each travel day. is 30 dollars a day for counter-service at disney (2 meals) a realistic goal? Yea, only 2 meals. One lunch and Dinner for one person :). Also I noticed the atrocious mistake in my title, the "should" got deleted. Terribly sorry.